[閒聊] The Verge談XSX與PS5

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原文網址 https://reurl.cc/EzMELa The Verge 11/25的文章 原文標題 WHY IS THE PS5 OUTPERFORMING THE ‘WORLD’S MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE’? 為什麼PS5的表現優於“世界上最強大的遊戲主機”? 副標 Early game comparisons show the PS5 outperforming the Xbox Series X 早期遊戲比較顯示PS5勝過Xbox Series X Microsoft has been proudly discussing how powerful its Xbox Series X console is for months now. There have been deep dives into the tech inside, promises it’s “the world’ s most powerful console,” and even news that the company waited on a specific AMD technology to give it a mysterious edge over the PS5. On paper, the Xbox Series X looks more powerful than the PS5. But in practice early game tests show the PS5 outperforming Microsoft’s console 微軟這幾個月來一直在自豪地討論Xbox Series X多有威力。人們對該技術進行了深入研 究,承諾它是“世界上功能最強大的遊戲主機” ,甚至有消息稱該公司正在等待一項特定的AMD技術,以使其較PS5具有神秘優勢。帳面上 ,Xbox Series X看起來比PS5強大。 但實際上,早期的遊戲測試顯示PS5的表現優於Microsoft的遊戲主機。 Digital Foundry has been analyzing a number of new games across both the PS5 and Xbox Series X, and the results are surprising. With the Xbox Series X capable of 12 teraflops of GPU performance vs. 10.28 teraflops on the PS5, most onlookers expected there to be a small gap between the consoles. Microsoft’s next-gen Xbox also has higher levels of memory bandwidth and more compute units, but Sony offers developers less compute units running at a variable (and higher) clock rate to extract better performance out of the PS5. Digital Foundry持續分析許多在PS5和Xbox Series X上的新遊戲,結果令人驚訝。Xbox Series X的GPU性能為12 teraflops, 而PS5上為10.28 teraflops,因此大多數人預期這兩台主機的差距很小。微軟的此世代 Xbox還具有更高級別的記憶體頻寬和更多計算單元, 但索尼為開發人員提供了更少但更高(可變)時脈運行的計算單元,以從PS5中榨出更佳性 能。 While the Xbox Series X takes a slight lead in 4K and ray tracing performance modes on Devil May Cry 5, the high frame rate mode runs noticeably better on PS5 with frame rate gaps between the two systems at more than 40fps in some scenes. “The dips look really strange to me, and it kind of suggests to me some kind of API limitation on the Xbox side where the GPU is being held back by something,” suggests Digital Foundry editor Richard Leadbetter. 雖然Xbox Series X在Devil May Cry 5的4K和光線追踪性能模式中略有領先,但在某些場 景中,高幀率模式在PS5上的運行效果明顯更好, 兩者差距超過40fps。Digital Foundry編輯Richard Leadbetter表示:“這種(幀率)下降 對我來說真的很奇怪,它暗示了Xbox似乎受到某種API限制, 在這種情況下GPU被某些東西阻擋了。” (DF幫講話之一) These dips matter because sudden drops mean a more obvious judder or stutter for players. Variable refresh rate displays can help smooth this out, but if the dips are significant then you’ll still feel the changes in frame rates either way. 這些(幀率)驟降很重要,因為(幀率)突然下降對玩家而言意味著更加明顯的畫面不穩。 VRR可以幫助您解決這一問題,但是如果下降幅度很大, 您仍然會感覺到幀率的變化。 Devil May Cry 5 also offers a ray tracing quality mode, where the Xbox Series X doesn’t show a significant lead. "I don’t really have any technical explanation for it, except the sense you’ re getting here is that PlayStation 5 spec wise is punching above its weight, and something is up with Xbox — which on paper at least should be significantly ahead, ” adds Leadbetter in the Digital Foundry analysis. Devil May Cry 5還提供了光線追踪品質模式,而Xbox Series X並未顯示出明顯的領先優 勢。 Leadbetter在Digital Foundry分析中表示。 “我對此沒有任何技術上的解釋,您可以感覺到PlayStation 5規格方面的明智之舉 使之表現出超越其量級之一擊(應指其實際遊戲表現優於其帳面數據), 並且Xbox出現了某些問題-在帳面上(XBOX)應該領先得多” (DF幫講話之二) Elsewhere, Microsoft has a marketing deal for Assassin’s Creed Valhalla so that every time you see it promoted in a TV ad, it’ll appear alongside next-gen Xbox consoles. You’d expect Xbox Series X would be the best place to play this new game on console, but the PS5 outperforms again. Digital Foundry found that the Xbox Series X version of Valhalla includes a lot of screen tearing and regular dips below 60fps. The PS5 version appears to run a lot more smoothly. Variable fresh rates do make up for this screen tearing on the Xbox Series X, but you’ll need a modern TV to support that. 此外,微軟與刺客信條英靈殿(X)刺客教條維京紀元(O)達成了一項營銷協議, 因此,每當您看到它在電視廣告中宣傳,它會與下一代Xbox主機一同出現。 您可能希望Xbox Series X是玩此新遊戲的最佳選擇,但PS5的性能再次超越。Digital Foundry發現,維京紀元的Xbox Series X版本包含許多 畫面撕裂和60fps以下的禎率下降。PS5版本的運行似乎更加順暢。VRR確實彌補了Xbox Series X上出現的畫面撕裂問題,但是您需要一台現代電視 (育碧表示我們只是一起廣告而已嘻嘻) The Xbox Series X also falls behind the PS5 in both image quality and resolution in Dirt 5. The PS5 version (in image quality mode) gets better texture filtering and the average resolution is a little higher, too. Over in the performance mode, which targets 120fps, the detail level on PS5 is far higher than the Xbox Series X. Codemasters has acknowledged the gap here and says it will be fixed in an upcoming patch. As the performance mode has higher textures on the PS5, the performance dips below 120fps more often than Xbox Series X, but it’s hard to compare these two modes without Codemasters fixing the detail-level discrepancies. Either way, variable refresh rates on the Xbox Series X certainly help smooth out the gameplay experience, but they shouldn’t really be needed. Xbox Series X的圖像品質和解析度在Dirt 5中也落後於PS5 。PS5版本(在圖像品質模式 下)具有更好的紋理過濾,並且平均解析度也更高。 在以120fps為目標的性能模式下,PS5的細節級別遠遠高於Xbox SeriesX。Codemaster已 經承認此處的差距,並表示將在即將發布的修正檔中予以修復。 由於PS5上的性能模式具有更高的紋理,和XSX相比PS5下降到120fps以下的頻率更高,但 是如果沒有Codemasters來修復兩者細節的差異, 很難比較這兩種模式。無論哪種方式,Xbox Series X上的VRR都可以讓遊戲體驗更流暢, 但實際上並不需要(應指原本就夠流暢了) Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War also demonstrates the differences between these consoles. It shows an advantage for Xbox Series X in ray tracing performance, but Microsoft’s console falls behind in the 120fps mode. Black Ops Cold War includes ray-traced shadows, which aren’t as demanding as ray-traced reflections, but they add some depth to scenes. The PS5 drops to 40fps in some scenes with ray tracing, where the Xbox Series X holds 60fps. 《使命召喚:黑色行動》冷戰也展示了這些遊戲主機間的差異。它顯示了Xbox Series X 在光線追踪性能方面的優勢,但微軟的主機在120fps模式下落後。 黑色行動冷戰包括光線追踪陰影特效,雖然不如光線追踪反射特效要求高,但它們會增加 場景的深度。在某些帶有光線追踪的場景中,PS5降至40fps, 而Xbox Series X保持60fps。 All of these comparisons show that the Xbox Series X isn’t outperforming the PS5 in most scenarios, and it’s often Sony’s console taking the lead. Some of these differences could be down to bugs, but I’ve been speaking to developers (who wish to remain anonymous) about the Xbox Series X development environment and it’s clear things are a little complicated. 所有這些比較表明,在多數情況下,Xbox Series X的表現未能勝過PS5,而且通常是Sony 的遊戲主機處於領先地位。 其中的一些差異可能是由於bugs引起的,但是我一直在與開發人員(希望保持匿名)談論 Xbox Series X開發環境,顯然事情有些複雜。 Microsoft only allowed developers to submit games for Xbox Series X certification in June, after delivering an update to its Game Developers Kit (GDK). That followed the company’s rather tight schedule for dev kit allocations, all while I’ve been consistently hearing that many developers had access to PS5 dev kits far in advance of Xbox versions. 在其遊戲開發者工具包(GDK)更新後,Microsoft僅在6月允許開發者提交獲得Xbox Series X認證的遊戲。 在此之前,該公司的開發工具包分配時程相當緊湊,而我持續聽到許多開發人員可以在 Xbox版本之前獲得PS5開發工具包。 It always takes time for developers to get used to the new software and tools involved in creating games for next-gen consoles. One developer tells me Microsoft’s switch to the GDK has been troublesome for basic things like user profile switching or gamepad linking. 開發人員總是需要時間來適應為下一代主機創造遊戲所涉及的新軟體和工具。一位開發人 員告訴我,對於諸如用戶配置文件切換或遊戲手把連接 之類的基本功能,切換到(新的?)GDK很麻煩。 Microsoft has spent years improving its tooling situation since the Xbox One, which was a messy launch period for developers. Still, I consistently hear that Sony’s tools are superior, even in the basics of providing more clear documentation for developers to follow. 自Xbox One以來,微軟已經花費了數年時間改善其工具狀況,這對於開發人員來說是一個 混亂的發佈時期。 儘管如此,我始終聽到索尼的工具是較為卓越的,提供開發人員較清楚的說明 Not all developers are still getting used to the GDK, though. The team behind Dirt 5 praised Microsoft’s GDK ahead of the Xbox Series X launch. “We started doing the groundwork for Xbox Series X development long before we even received the hardware,” said Codemasters technical director David Springate back in June. “This kind of thinking from Xbox allowed us to get a real head-start on next-gen development, so after receiving our early Xbox Series X hardware, we were up and running really quickly.” 不過,並不是所有的開發人員都習慣於GDK。在Xbox Series X發布之前,Dirt 5團隊讚揚 了Microsoft的GDK。“在甚至還沒有收到硬體前, 我們就已經開始為Xbox Series X的開發做基礎工作,” Codemasters技術總監David Springate於6月表示。“ Xbox的這種想法使我們能夠真正 掌握下一代開發的先機,因此,在收到我們早期的Xbox Series X硬體之後,我們就可以 很快地啟動並運行。” (那為啥Dirt在XSX的貼圖這麼謎) These performance gaps, weird bugs, and differences between the Xbox Series X and PS5 versions of games look like issues related to the games rather than a platform problem for the Xbox. If Microsoft delivered dev kits and tools far later than Sony, then it could take creators more time to optimize further for Xbox. It may also explain why we didn’t see a lot of Xbox Series X gameplay in the months ahead of launch, but Sony was happy to regularly deliver PS5 gameplay. 這些性能差距,奇怪的錯誤以及Xbox Series X和PS5版本的遊戲之間的差異看起來像是與 遊戲相關的問題,而不是Xbox平台問題。 如果微軟提供的開發套件和工具比索尼晚得多,那麼遊戲創造者可能需要更多的時間來進 一步為Xbox最佳化。這也可以解釋為什麼在發布前的幾個月 中我們沒有看到很多在Xbox Series X上的遊戲玩法,但是索尼很高興能定期提供在PS5上 的遊戲玩法。 Expect to see a lot of game patches either way. Codemasters is fixing up Dirt 5, and I understand Ubisoft is working on an Assassin’s Creed Valhalla patch for the Xbox Series X to improve gameplay. Microsoft is also working with developers to resolve issues and has acknowledged the comparison videos in a statement to The Verge. 我們預期會見到許多遊戲修正檔。Codemasters正在修復Dirt 5,並且我知道Ubisoft正在 為Xbox Series X開發刺客信條英靈殿修正檔,以改善遊戲體驗。 微軟還與開發人員合作解決問題,並在致The Verge的聲明中確認了比較影像 “We are aware of performance issues in a handful of optimized titles on Xbox Series X|S and are actively working with our partners to identify and resolve the issues to ensure an optimal experience,” says a Microsoft spokesperson in a statement to The Verge. “As we begin a new console generation, our partners are just now scratching the surface of what next-gen consoles can do and minor bug fixes are expected as they learn how to take full advantage of our new platform. We are eager to continue working with developers to further explore the capability of Xbox Series X|S in the future.” 微軟發言人在The Verge的一份聲明中說:“我們意識到Xbox Series X | S上的一些最佳 化項目中存在性能問題,並正在與我們的合作夥伴積極合作, 以發現並解決這些問題,以確保玩家獲得最佳體驗。” “當我們開始新一代主機時,我 們的合作夥伴才剛剛接觸到下一代主機可以做的事情, 隨著他們學習如何充分利用我們的新平台,我們有望修復一些小錯誤。我們渴望在將來繼 續與開發人員合作,進一步探索Xbox Series X | S的功能。” (官話你好) Microsoft also hasn’t explained why it waited for full RDNA 2 support from AMD for the Xbox Series X. Xbox chief Phil Spencer revealed to The Verge recently that Microsoft started manufacturing consoles in late summer. “We were a little bit later than the competition, because we were waiting for some specific AMD technology in our chip,” says Spencer. 微軟還沒有解釋為什麼它要等待AMD對Xbox Series X的全面RDNA 2支持(X)支援(O)。 Xbox首席執行官Phil Spencer最近向The Verge透露, 微軟於夏末開始生產遊戲主機。Spencer說:“我們比競爭對手晚了一些,因為我們正在 等待晶片中使用某些特定的AMD技術。” Things have clearly been coming in hot on the Xbox Series X side, but the PS5 has also launched without variable refresh rate support to help smooth out any frame rate issues. These features and overall performance do matter greatly on these consoles as it affects how we all experience playing the games that developers create. The Xbox One consistently struggled to hit 1080p early on compared to the PS4, and while the differences aren’t that big yet this time around, it will clearly take months or even years to determine how this next generation of consoles will change the way games are played. 顯然,Xbox Series X方面的情況正在燒(Hot???),但是PS5還沒有VRR,以幫助解決任何 幀頻問題。這些功能和整體性能在這些遊戲主機上確實起著 至關重要的作用,因為它會影響我們大家體驗開發人員創造的遊戲。早期Xbox One與PS4 相比難以達到1080p,儘管這次差異還不是很大, 但顯然要花費數月甚至數年的時間才能確定下一代遊戲主機將如何改變遊戲遊玩方式 Microsoft may have been beating its chest about 12 teraflops and the “world’ s most powerful console,” but that hasn’t materialized yet. Despite this, I understand Microsoft is still quietly confident that bigger and more obvious performance gains will appear on Xbox over time, thanks to full RDNA2 support and its maturing developer tools. 微軟的壓箱寶是12 teraflops和“世界上最強大的遊戲主機”,但是此事尚未實現。儘管 如此,我了解微軟仍然非常有信心,由於全面的RDNA2支持(X)支援(O)及其成熟的開發人員工具, Xbox會隨著時間過去出現更大,更明顯的性能提升。 Exactly what “full RDNA2 support” will bring is still unclear, though. Microsoft hasn’t detailed why it waited for AMD or why full RDNA2 matters. This is all while AMD is still working on its super sampling technology that it’s promising will improve ray tracing frame rates and could be available on Xbox Series X. 但是,究竟“ RDNA2的完全體”究竟會帶來什麼仍不清楚。微軟尚未詳細說明為何等待 AMD或為什麼完整的RDNA2很重要。 AMD仍在研究其超級採樣技術,它承諾將帶來光線追踪禎速提高,且可以在Xbox Series X 上應用 Ultimately, it’s the games that matter and Microsoft’s launch lineup has relied heavily on third-party games that aren’t backing up its performance claims. The Xbox Series X has been great at backward compatibility, accessibility, and accessory support, but Microsoft still needs to deliver more games from its Xbox Game Studios to really show the power of the console. 最終,重要的是遊戲,微軟的發布陣容嚴重依賴第三方遊戲,而這些遊戲並未支持其性能 要求。Xbox Series X在相容性,可得性和配件支持(X)周邊支援(O)方面一直很出色, 但是Microsoft仍然需要從Xbox Game Studio提供更多遊戲,才能真正發揮其主機的威力。 心得:這文章怎麼那麼長......... RDNA2 完全體最好很威XD 第一方的支持很重要,三廠只會跟你一起做廣告wwwww --
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: (臺灣) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/XBOX/M.1606391369.A.CD0.html
1Fjason748: 先前crytek工程師說PS5比XSX好開發,看來所言不假 11/26 19:54
2Fzombieguy: 沙木熱身中 11/26 19:59
3Froyalmomo: gamesale會多幾台XSX嗎 11/26 20:06
4FHCracker: 標題殺人法,棒的 11/26 20:10
5FLuciferspear: 微軟努力嘿 11/26 20:12
6FHCracker: 不過微軟自己遲交開發工具確實是怪不了人,推回來 11/26 20:13
7Falanjiang: 個人覺得這篇還算持平所以翻一下,大家有興趣可以看一 11/26 20:14
8Falanjiang: 一下內文。雖然很多似乎都已經知道 11/26 20:15
9FTotalBiscuit: The Verge遊戲部門...還記得2年前那個組PC的影片 11/26 20:33
10Fslimu0001: 微軟次世代開發工具那麼晚給造成那麼多問題,被酸剛好 11/26 20:33
11FThe4sakenOne: 至少第一方別拉垮 11/26 20:34
12FTaipeiKindom: Phil Spencer氣到全身發抖 11/26 20:35
13Frandy123: 這篇倒是提醒了一些事,開發時都說PS5效能快10%,但硬體 11/26 20:41
14Frandy123: 公布之後反而是XSX SPEC高20%,真的蠻弔詭的。不是硬體 11/26 20:41
15Frandy123: 瑕疵就開發工具? 11/26 20:41
這篇提供部分臆測? 這些遊戲的修正檔出來後可以再看看
16Fhorseorange: 今天也有看到這篇 雖然標題很引戰 但內容還行 (我原 11/26 20:42
17Fhorseorange: 本以為某人會發的說XD) 11/26 20:42
18Fpsyliwu: 軟軟加油! 11/26 20:45
19Fzingy: 他不是幫微軟講話,他只是試著去理解為什麼XSX的表現沒有 11/26 20:48
20Fzingy: 比較好,替有背於常理的現像作出解釋。 11/26 20:48
就試著去解釋,不過我是路人不是專業人士實在無從判斷起 ※ 編輯: alanjiang ( 臺灣), 11/26/2020 21:03:28
21Fepisode666: 怎麼還沒看到有人來推說是XSS拖累 11/26 21:15
22Fhoos891405: 怎麼沒人說XBOX拖累ps5 11/26 21:33
jason748:轉錄至看板 C_Chat 11/26 21:38
23Fjerryklu: gameplay在這篇文都應該翻成"遊戲體驗"會比較合適 11/26 22:32
24Fjerryklu: improve gameplay翻成改善遊戲玩法感覺像是遊戲機制 11/26 22:32
25Fjerryklu: 會改變一樣 11/26 22:33
improve gameplay那段改了
26Flaipenguin: 希望軟軟加油一點,不然感覺好可惜阿 11/26 23:00
27FMedic: 所以之前開發者覺得XSS拖累 是因為根本還沒拿到新版工具? 11/26 23:35
28Fsumarai: 理由伯 11/26 23:41
※ 編輯: alanjiang ( 臺灣), 11/26/2020 23:46:56
29Foldk13: 就等吧,現階段兩陣營都有問題要解決 11/27 00:03
30Fyuugen2: 微軟喔就欠罵啊,六月才給開發工具,超扯 11/27 02:01
31Fyuugen2: 更正,不是給開發工具但總之是讓開發公司很沒時間開發 11/27 02:04
32FGalacticEcho: Cyberpunk 2077 的次世代主機版要延到明年,應該也 11/27 03:21
33FGalacticEcho: 是因為太晚拿到GDK所致。 11/27 03:21
34Fhoos891405: 就算準時 2077還是會找理由牽拖延期 11/27 05:09
35Fs370515: 結論:索尼該死 11/27 07:22
36FCarrarese: 推翻譯! 11/27 07:25
37FCW4: 招喚Console界傳奇硬體分析大師莎木 11/27 07:49
38FULSHAN: 感謝分享~ 11/27 08:57
39Fblowchina: 文中提到bug不知道是什麼方面的? 多謝分享 11/27 09:15
40Fridges: 很謎啊,更強的設計卻跑不出更好的結果 11/27 10:23
41Fridges: XSX已購入,XGP很讚 11/27 10:23
42Frasputin: https://i.imgur.com/1zv6Dcw.png ps板看門狗文章底下 11/27 11:46
43Frasputin: 板友提供的連結正是我在想的,微軟想繼續用最強性能主 11/27 11:46
44Frasputin: 機當宣傳的話,務必好好正視目前跨平台遊戲的落後表現 11/27 11:46
45Frasputin: ,出錢出人修正並花錢請DF再評測一次,否則觀望的目光 11/27 11:46
46Frasputin: 鐵定會散去 11/27 11:46
47Fhenryyeh5566: 反正現在都買不到,讓他們慢慢改剛好明年拿到完整 11/27 12:23
48Fhenryyeh5566: 版 11/27 12:23
49Ff16leon: https://i.imgur.com/kxdoyaR.jpg 11/27 12:33
50Ff16leon: 看看就好,先把遊戲玩完比較重要 11/27 12:33
51Ff16leon: 現在兩邊FPS一下高一下低的 11/27 12:33
52Ff16leon: 也有XSX穩60的影片,真是奇妙 11/27 12:34
育碧真是讓人猜不透啊,這算PS5劣化更新檔嗎XD 下一波嘴砲戰2077請預備wwwww 玩遊戲覺得好玩體感順才是真的 嘴砲戰就玩遊戲的空檔嘴一下就算惹XD ※ 編輯: alanjiang ( 臺灣), 11/27/2020 13:16:32
53FAmadeGX: 手上沒有XSX但我感覺1.04版真的是來拉低水準用的= = 爛死 11/27 13:25
54Ftalan: 2077兩個次世代主機版本都是2021年才出,應該與開發套件晚 11/27 13:45
55Ftalan: 沒關係,再說他們連目前快出的版本都在加班趕了。 11/27 13:45
56Falanjiang: 你覺得只有PS4和XOne版本就不會戰嗎(菸) 11/27 13:53
57FAmadeGX: p4p跟x1x有戰的空間嗎?? 我還以為沒啥好爭的 一台直升機 11/27 13:58
58Fzombieguy: 一台飛機杯 11/27 14:06
59Falvistan: 隔壁說微軟砸錢叫ubi搞爛ps5 11/27 14:14
61FARX888: 一陣一陣的似乎是不定時發生 沒事兒 應該是bug 11/27 14:33
62Ftwenty7: 看我能不能用天蠍撐到xsx台灣跳水價再買 11/27 15:07
63Fjim8596: xsx跳水大概2027吧 11/27 15:09
64Foldk13: 天蠍現在跳了已經入手 等7年後XSX跳再入手 11/27 15:12
65FVICGecko: 第5段的重量是用拳擊來比喻 ps5打了一拳超過他的量級 11/27 15:18
66Falanjiang: 感謝解釋 11/27 15:58
67FMedic: 趕快推舊換新活動啊!! 我準備好祭出我的天蠍了!! 11/27 16:33
68Fgaryroc: 為什麼這篇翻譯的用語這麼像從對岸網站轉的阿,真的自己 11/27 21:23
69Fgaryroc: 翻的? 11/27 21:23
有覺得哪裡像支那用語的嗎請不吝指教,還是我中國網站逛太多導致我的用語被汙染了XD 可以說是業餘翻譯沒錯,翻得不好多多忍耐,有附原文自行參閱囉wwwww ※ 編輯: alanjiang ( 臺灣), 11/28/2020 00:02:54
70Ffaang: 這篇在巴哈也有人轉中國網站翻譯 還下了一個莫名的標題 11/28 00:46
https://reurl.cc/2gGYAn 這篇嗎? 看他轉錄的文章應該來源也是Verge這篇,不過文章是大略意譯非逐字譯 標題.........微軟無奈承認.......也是斷章取義,不知從何看出微軟很無奈wwwww 這篇文章主要還是在"探討為何"有此現象 微軟表示朕知道了應該不是主要重點XD
71Fgaryroc: 不是在找你碴,不過說是自己翻譯,結果冒出來的翻譯是刺 11/28 03:50
72Fgaryroc: 客信條英靈殿,跟支持取代支援,真的很像從對岸網站轉貼 11/28 03:50
73Fgaryroc: 來的XD 11/28 03:50
74Fgaryroc: 不是在說你翻的不好 11/28 03:51
75Fgaryroc: 話說我原本看到支持的用法還真的以為是廠商支持推廣那個 11/28 03:59
76Fgaryroc: 規格的意思,後來看多了才知道單純是support 直翻,沒有 11/28 03:59
77Fgaryroc: 字面支持的意思XD 11/28 03:59
支持個鬼XD支援支援支援 已修改,感謝提醒
78Falanjiang: 這些的確是支那用語,完了我口水吃太多變半個支那人了@ 11/28 05:36
79Falanjiang: @ACV應該翻教條和維京紀元。support台灣一般好像翻支 11/28 05:36
80Falanjiang: 援,有空回家再改XD 11/28 05:36
81Falanjiang: 感謝提醒 11/28 05:36
82Falanjiang: 另外就是因為只看原文標題會引起誤會?!所以我把原文 11/28 05:45
83Falanjiang: 標題和副標放在內文讓大家自己去判斷,這篇其實就整理 11/28 05:45
84Falanjiang: 最近遊戲比較結果,之後更新檔如果和原本差異夠大搞不 11/28 05:45
85Falanjiang: 好又有好事者會寫另一篇整理的文章 11/28 05:45
※ 編輯: alanjiang ( 臺灣), 11/28/2020 10:12:55


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85 xbox 2020-11-26 19:49

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